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	<title>Comments on: XHTML, validity &lt;b&gt; and &lt;i&gt;</title>
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	<link>http://tiffanybbrown.com/2006/06/01/xhtml-validity-b-and-i/</link>
	<description>A web log about web development and internet culture with frequent detours into other stuff.</description>
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		<title>By: tiffany</title>
		<link>http://tiffanybbrown.com/2006/06/01/xhtml-validity-b-and-i/comment-page-1/#comment-178</link>
		<dc:creator>tiffany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2006 14:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiffanybbrown.com/viewqb.php/631#comment-178</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Using a span with a &quot;bold&quot; class is completely unsemantic (is that a word?), though, because you&#8217;re not describing the data at all, and the class name of &#8220;bold&#8221; (and I&#039;ve seen class names representing colors and font sizes, etc.) is a very poor way to describe the class.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The point is whether you think the data is semantically significant. I only use classes like .bold or .italic when semantics isn&#039;t important, and when the data would almost always be bold, or could just as easily &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; be bold. 

Honestly, though, I have never experienced a redesign that didn&#039;t also involve a massive re-code. Most web sites are still &lt;em&gt;visually&lt;/em&gt; designed. And you always have to make a compromise between aesthetics and semantics. So in &lt;em&gt;practical&lt;/em&gt; terms, I don&#039;t think &lt;span class=&quot;bold&quot;&gt; is that big of a deal.

Plus having a bold class (which I usually call .b to save a couple of bytes) gives some added flexibility when you want to make one member of a particular class bold. 

For example, rather than having &lt;code&gt;.title&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code&gt;.title-bold&lt;/code&gt; you can just combine those classes in your span &lt;code&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;title b&quot;&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Using a span with a &#8220;bold&#8221; class is completely unsemantic (is that a word?), though, because you&#8217;re not describing the data at all, and the class name of &#8220;bold&#8221; (and I&#8217;ve seen class names representing colors and font sizes, etc.) is a very poor way to describe the class.
</p></blockquote>
<p>The point is whether you think the data is semantically significant. I only use classes like .bold or .italic when semantics isn&#8217;t important, and when the data would almost always be bold, or could just as easily <em>not</em> be bold. </p>
<p>Honestly, though, I have never experienced a redesign that didn&#8217;t also involve a massive re-code. Most web sites are still <em>visually</em> designed. And you always have to make a compromise between aesthetics and semantics. So in <em>practical</em> terms, I don&#8217;t think &lt;span class=&#8221;bold&#8221;&gt; is that big of a deal.</p>
<p>Plus having a bold class (which I usually call .b to save a couple of bytes) gives some added flexibility when you want to make one member of a particular class bold. </p>
<p>For example, rather than having <code>.title</code> and <code>.title-bold</code> you can just combine those classes in your span <code>&lt;span class="title b"&gt;</code>.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: tiffany</title>
		<link>http://tiffanybbrown.com/2006/06/01/xhtml-validity-b-and-i/comment-page-1/#comment-92448</link>
		<dc:creator>tiffany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2006 14:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiffanybbrown.com/viewqb.php/631#comment-92448</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Using a span with a &quot;bold&quot; class is completely unsemantic (is that a word?), though, because you&#8217;re not describing the data at all, and the class name of &#8220;bold&#8221; (and I&#039;ve seen class names representing colors and font sizes, etc.) is a very poor way to describe the class.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The point is whether you think the data is semantically significant. I only use classes like .bold or .italic when semantics isn&#039;t important, and when the data would almost always be bold, or could just as easily &lt;em&gt;not&lt;/em&gt; be bold. 

Honestly, though, I have never experienced a redesign that didn&#039;t also involve a massive re-code. Most web sites are still &lt;em&gt;visually&lt;/em&gt; designed. And you always have to make a compromise between aesthetics and semantics. So in &lt;em&gt;practical&lt;/em&gt; terms, I don&#039;t think &lt;span class=&quot;bold&quot;&gt; is that big of a deal.

Plus having a bold class (which I usually call .b to save a couple of bytes) gives some added flexibility when you want to make one member of a particular class bold. 

For example, rather than having &lt;code&gt;.title&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;code&gt;.title-bold&lt;/code&gt; you can just combine those classes in your span &lt;code&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;title b&quot;&gt;&lt;/code&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Using a span with a &#8220;bold&#8221; class is completely unsemantic (is that a word?), though, because you&#8217;re not describing the data at all, and the class name of &#8220;bold&#8221; (and I&#8217;ve seen class names representing colors and font sizes, etc.) is a very poor way to describe the class.
</p></blockquote>
<p>The point is whether you think the data is semantically significant. I only use classes like .bold or .italic when semantics isn&#8217;t important, and when the data would almost always be bold, or could just as easily <em>not</em> be bold. </p>
<p>Honestly, though, I have never experienced a redesign that didn&#8217;t also involve a massive re-code. Most web sites are still <em>visually</em> designed. And you always have to make a compromise between aesthetics and semantics. So in <em>practical</em> terms, I don&#8217;t think &lt;span class=&#8221;bold&#8221;&gt; is that big of a deal.</p>
<p>Plus having a bold class (which I usually call .b to save a couple of bytes) gives some added flexibility when you want to make one member of a particular class bold. </p>
<p>For example, rather than having <code>.title</code> and <code>.title-bold</code> you can just combine those classes in your span <code>&lt;span class="title b"&gt;</code>.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben Ramsey</title>
		<link>http://tiffanybbrown.com/2006/06/01/xhtml-validity-b-and-i/comment-page-1/#comment-177</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Ramsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2006 04:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiffanybbrown.com/viewqb.php/631#comment-177</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt; and &lt;em&gt; actually have semantic meaning to me, and, like you, I assumed that &lt;b&gt; and &lt;i&gt; were being removed particularly because they fail to describe the kind of data they hold and are purely for asthetics, while I can see how &lt;strong&gt; and &lt;em&gt; actually describe the data. Using a span with a &quot;bold&quot; class is completely unsemantic (is that a word?), though, because you&#039;re not describing the data at all, and the class name of &quot;bold&quot; (and I&#039;ve seen class names representing colors and font sizes, etc.) is a very poor way to describe the class. CSS gives you the unique ability to change your design by modifying something in one place and effecting change across your entire site. What if you decide that &quot;bold&quot; should be italicized or that &quot;red12pt&quot; should now be green? You don&#039;t want to update all your code where the class name is used, but now the class name doesn&#039;t mean anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&lt;strong&gt; and &lt;em&gt; actually have semantic meaning to me, and, like you, I assumed that &lt;b&gt; and &lt;i&gt; were being removed particularly because they fail to describe the kind of data they hold and are purely for asthetics, while I can see how &lt;strong&gt; and &lt;em&gt; actually describe the data. Using a span with a &#8220;bold&#8221; class is completely unsemantic (is that a word?), though, because you&#8217;re not describing the data at all, and the class name of &#8220;bold&#8221; (and I&#8217;ve seen class names representing colors and font sizes, etc.) is a very poor way to describe the class. CSS gives you the unique ability to change your design by modifying something in one place and effecting change across your entire site. What if you decide that &#8220;bold&#8221; should be italicized or that &#8220;red12pt&#8221; should now be green? You don&#8217;t want to update all your code where the class name is used, but now the class name doesn&#8217;t mean anything.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben Ramsey</title>
		<link>http://tiffanybbrown.com/2006/06/01/xhtml-validity-b-and-i/comment-page-1/#comment-92447</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Ramsey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2006 04:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiffanybbrown.com/viewqb.php/631#comment-92447</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt; and &lt;em&gt; actually have semantic meaning to me, and, like you, I assumed that &lt;b&gt; and &lt;i&gt; were being removed particularly because they fail to describe the kind of data they hold and are purely for asthetics, while I can see how &lt;strong&gt; and &lt;em&gt; actually describe the data. Using a span with a &quot;bold&quot; class is completely unsemantic (is that a word?), though, because you&#039;re not describing the data at all, and the class name of &quot;bold&quot; (and I&#039;ve seen class names representing colors and font sizes, etc.) is a very poor way to describe the class. CSS gives you the unique ability to change your design by modifying something in one place and effecting change across your entire site. What if you decide that &quot;bold&quot; should be italicized or that &quot;red12pt&quot; should now be green? You don&#039;t want to update all your code where the class name is used, but now the class name doesn&#039;t mean anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&lt;strong&gt; and &lt;em&gt; actually have semantic meaning to me, and, like you, I assumed that &lt;b&gt; and &lt;i&gt; were being removed particularly because they fail to describe the kind of data they hold and are purely for asthetics, while I can see how &lt;strong&gt; and &lt;em&gt; actually describe the data. Using a span with a &#8220;bold&#8221; class is completely unsemantic (is that a word?), though, because you&#8217;re not describing the data at all, and the class name of &#8220;bold&#8221; (and I&#8217;ve seen class names representing colors and font sizes, etc.) is a very poor way to describe the class. CSS gives you the unique ability to change your design by modifying something in one place and effecting change across your entire site. What if you decide that &#8220;bold&#8221; should be italicized or that &#8220;red12pt&#8221; should now be green? You don&#8217;t want to update all your code where the class name is used, but now the class name doesn&#8217;t mean anything.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tiffany</title>
		<link>http://tiffanybbrown.com/2006/06/01/xhtml-validity-b-and-i/comment-page-1/#comment-175</link>
		<dc:creator>tiffany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2006 18:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiffanybbrown.com/viewqb.php/631#comment-175</guid>
		<description>See, in my defense, I actually thought that bold and italic were dead or at least deprecated elements, which is why I used &lt;span&gt; (and I know I ain&#039;t the only one who thought that).

But is every bold-faced or italicized item semantically significant? 

For example, when I bold &quot;Technorati-ism.&quot; To me, there&#039;s no reason to emphasize it, except that it looks pretty on a page or screen. It&#039;s not text that you&#039;d want a screen reader to read at a louder volume. In fact, it&#039;s probably one of the least important items on the page. But because it is a different kind of content, I prefer to set it apart in some way; I could easily have used a paragraph border. 

In that case, using &lt;b&gt; or &lt;span class=&quot;b&quot;&gt; is totally appropriate, (although, semantically-speaking, &lt;span class=&quot;technorati&quot;&gt; would probably be best).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, in my defense, I actually thought that bold and italic were dead or at least deprecated elements, which is why I used &lt;span&gt; (and I know I ain&#8217;t the only one who thought that).</p>
<p>But is every bold-faced or italicized item semantically significant? </p>
<p>For example, when I bold &#8220;Technorati-ism.&#8221; To me, there&#8217;s no reason to emphasize it, except that it looks pretty on a page or screen. It&#8217;s not text that you&#8217;d want a screen reader to read at a louder volume. In fact, it&#8217;s probably one of the least important items on the page. But because it is a different kind of content, I prefer to set it apart in some way; I could easily have used a paragraph border. </p>
<p>In that case, using &lt;b&gt; or &lt;span class=&#8221;b&#8221;&gt; is totally appropriate, (although, semantically-speaking, &lt;span class=&#8221;technorati&#8221;&gt; would probably be best).</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tiffany</title>
		<link>http://tiffanybbrown.com/2006/06/01/xhtml-validity-b-and-i/comment-page-1/#comment-92446</link>
		<dc:creator>tiffany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2006 18:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiffanybbrown.com/viewqb.php/631#comment-92446</guid>
		<description>See, in my defense, I actually thought that bold and italic were dead or at least deprecated elements, which is why I used &lt;span&gt; (and I know I ain&#039;t the only one who thought that).

But is every bold-faced or italicized item semantically significant? 

For example, when I bold &quot;Technorati-ism.&quot; To me, there&#039;s no reason to emphasize it, except that it looks pretty on a page or screen. It&#039;s not text that you&#039;d want a screen reader to read at a louder volume. In fact, it&#039;s probably one of the least important items on the page. But because it is a different kind of content, I prefer to set it apart in some way; I could easily have used a paragraph border. 

In that case, using &lt;b&gt; or &lt;span class=&quot;b&quot;&gt; is totally appropriate, (although, semantically-speaking, &lt;span class=&quot;technorati&quot;&gt; would probably be best).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See, in my defense, I actually thought that bold and italic were dead or at least deprecated elements, which is why I used &lt;span&gt; (and I know I ain&#8217;t the only one who thought that).</p>
<p>But is every bold-faced or italicized item semantically significant? </p>
<p>For example, when I bold &#8220;Technorati-ism.&#8221; To me, there&#8217;s no reason to emphasize it, except that it looks pretty on a page or screen. It&#8217;s not text that you&#8217;d want a screen reader to read at a louder volume. In fact, it&#8217;s probably one of the least important items on the page. But because it is a different kind of content, I prefer to set it apart in some way; I could easily have used a paragraph border. </p>
<p>In that case, using &lt;b&gt; or &lt;span class=&#8221;b&#8221;&gt; is totally appropriate, (although, semantically-speaking, &lt;span class=&#8221;technorati&#8221;&gt; would probably be best).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rashid Z. Muhammad</title>
		<link>http://tiffanybbrown.com/2006/06/01/xhtml-validity-b-and-i/comment-page-1/#comment-174</link>
		<dc:creator>Rashid Z. Muhammad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2006 17:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiffanybbrown.com/viewqb.php/631#comment-174</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know why, but I cringe at the idea of using spans and classes for emphasis. I&#039;d rather just restyle the em and strong tags due to better intrinsic semantics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why, but I cringe at the idea of using spans and classes for emphasis. I&#8217;d rather just restyle the em and strong tags due to better intrinsic semantics.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rashid Z. Muhammad</title>
		<link>http://tiffanybbrown.com/2006/06/01/xhtml-validity-b-and-i/comment-page-1/#comment-92445</link>
		<dc:creator>Rashid Z. Muhammad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Jun 2006 17:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiffanybbrown.com/viewqb.php/631#comment-92445</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know why, but I cringe at the idea of using spans and classes for emphasis. I&#039;d rather just restyle the em and strong tags due to better intrinsic semantics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why, but I cringe at the idea of using spans and classes for emphasis. I&#8217;d rather just restyle the em and strong tags due to better intrinsic semantics.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tiffany</title>
		<link>http://tiffanybbrown.com/2006/06/01/xhtml-validity-b-and-i/comment-page-1/#comment-165</link>
		<dc:creator>tiffany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jun 2006 19:25:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiffanybbrown.com/viewqb.php/631#comment-165</guid>
		<description>Yes: &lt;u&gt; and &lt;strike&gt; are deprecated. &lt;b&gt; and &lt;i&gt; are not. You should use CSS for the former.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes: &lt;u&gt; and &lt;strike&gt; are deprecated. &lt;b&gt; and &lt;i&gt; are not. You should use CSS for the former.  </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tiffany</title>
		<link>http://tiffanybbrown.com/2006/06/01/xhtml-validity-b-and-i/comment-page-1/#comment-92444</link>
		<dc:creator>tiffany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jun 2006 19:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiffanybbrown.com/viewqb.php/631#comment-92444</guid>
		<description>Yes: &lt;u&gt; and &lt;strike&gt; are deprecated. &lt;b&gt; and &lt;i&gt; are not. You should use CSS for the former.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes: &lt;u&gt; and &lt;strike&gt; are deprecated. &lt;b&gt; and &lt;i&gt; are not. You should use CSS for the former.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Danny</title>
		<link>http://tiffanybbrown.com/2006/06/01/xhtml-validity-b-and-i/comment-page-1/#comment-164</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jun 2006 19:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiffanybbrown.com/viewqb.php/631#comment-164</guid>
		<description>the  (underline) tag is also deprecated in XHTML 1.0 strict. No new tag is introduced, so either don&#039;t use it ore usse CSS. Also deprecated  and &lt;strike&gt;, use  instead. But on validating they pass...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the  (underline) tag is also deprecated in XHTML 1.0 strict. No new tag is introduced, so either don&#8217;t use it ore usse CSS. Also deprecated  and &lt;strike&gt;, use  instead. But on validating they pass&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Danny</title>
		<link>http://tiffanybbrown.com/2006/06/01/xhtml-validity-b-and-i/comment-page-1/#comment-92443</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jun 2006 19:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tiffanybbrown.com/viewqb.php/631#comment-92443</guid>
		<description>the  (underline) tag is also deprecated in XHTML 1.0 strict. No new tag is introduced, so either don&#039;t use it ore usse CSS. Also deprecated  and &lt;strike&gt;, use  instead. But on validating they pass...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the  (underline) tag is also deprecated in XHTML 1.0 strict. No new tag is introduced, so either don&#8217;t use it ore usse CSS. Also deprecated  and &lt;strike&gt;, use  instead. But on validating they pass&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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